\nChar Johnson performing with Zebra Baby in Goddess Clap Back: Hip Hop Feminism in Art at the Cue Art Foundation. Photography by Elisa Garcia de la Huerta.\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n
Our upcoming project \u201cDiamond Tribe,\u201d a workshop with at-risk homeless LGBT youth of Manhattan, is essentially the outcome of a 4 year long creative relationship with one of our favorite rappers of the lesbian hip hop crew Zebra Baby. Now focusing on her exciting new solo project as BONES, in anticipation of our upcoming project \u201cDiamond Tribe,\u201d Go! Push Pops is releasing the unpublished interview that spurned this new stage of our work.<\/span><\/p>\n BONES: First of all thank you for inviting me to perform at the Cue Art Foundation\u2019s Hip Hop Feminism show. Before \u201cGoddess Clap Back\u201d I was getting really excited making the costume with my friend and I was thinking about tribes. I\u2019m very interested in tribes and women coming together to do something supportive.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Holla!<\/p>\n BONES: I was always the one looking in some magazine and tearing out the page with TLC or Queen Latifah. People still don\u2019t know that there are out, black, strong female MC\u2019s out there who aren\u2019t afraid of what the public is going to think of them. It\u2019s pretty upsetting when you think about where the world is right now in terms of music, especially hip hop. \u201cWhat do you think about gay hip hop?\u201d That\u2019s like the interview question of the century right now. And the response always goes something like, \u201cI mean I don\u2019t know I don\u2019t listen to it they can do what they want just don\u2019t bring it my way.\u201d They think that that\u2019s being accepting. Zebra Baby up against any of the male rappers that have just come out? We would be neck to neck in that race. I\u2019ve never liked competing. It\u2019s about our voice being heard.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Exactly, women have to create the space for other women to popout!!<\/p>\n BONES: That\u2019s why I always appreciated Go! Push Pops because you guys always supported us as Zebra Baby. You have these media outlets that think they are being so progressive because they discovered some kid in Sweden doing sad rap. Zebra Baby\u2019s been around for 4 years now. A track of ours pretty much went to #1 Electronic. Like Jungle Pussy, she\u2019s fucking amazing\u2026 Jungle Pussy\u2019s killing it. And Dai Burger. Women are so powerful you know?<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Problem is if you want to really make it as a rapper your identity choices are typical blonde straight chick, typical black male hood dude or maybe, increasingly, there\u2019s more acceptance for gay male rappers\u2026<\/p>\n BONES: Oh yeah, just because you\u2019re gay you\u2019re still a man. Shout out to Zebra Katz!<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Right here in Brooklyn we have Cakes Da Killa who was all up in Pitchfork and on the cover of all these magazines, but are those people really making money? There\u2019s got to still be a ceiling for any gay rapper. Like what?! Frank Ocean is the first gay rapper? There\u2019s just so much crazy media hype he\u2019s not even a rapper and he\u2019s not even gay.<\/p>\n BONES: Frank Ocean wouldn\u2019t have been if he had come out before. You know what I mean? So maybe you\u2019re doing yourself an injustice by coming out\u2026 I mean I don\u2019t give a fuck!!<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Frank Ocean created his identity around being straight and catering to a hetero female audience and then\u2026boom! I\u2019m gay buy my album!<\/p>\n BONES: I mean everyone just assumed that he was straight, they can make that assumption. I feel like you see me and you already know (I\u2019m a lesbian) if you don\u2019t than you\u2019re an idiot. But people always come up to me after a Zebra Baby show and they say \u201cMan I didn\u2019t think you guys were going to be that good\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Guys say that or girls?<\/p>\n BONES: Both.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: And it implies that it\u2019s because you\u2019re a woman kind of thing\u2026<\/p>\n BONES: I think it\u2019s because lesbian electronic rapping duo sounds fucking horrible!<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: And you\u2019re a feminist so you almost have to apologize for using profanity and misogyny. Can you explain why you use profanity and the value of that? What is your politics around that and why do you do it?<\/p>\n BONES: It\u2019s me being true to myself. We\u2019re all animals, we go through so many different emotions and it\u2019s about me painting my picture. My thing with misogyny is it\u2019s hate. I have nothing but love for the women that are in my life and myself. If I was a misogynist than I would hate myself. I just feel like I have to be real. It\u2019s really about me really connecting with that side – call it dark – I\u2019m human and I don\u2019t operate on one level.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: It\u2019s an outlet\u2026 letting it release through creativity.<\/p>\n BONES: The painter has their brush and the canvas and they go for it, mine just happens to be a little bit more powerful. Because it\u2019s speech, you now?<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: For you there\u2019s this transgressive quality to saying cunt or clit or bitch. Those are words to reclaim because we are queer, punk and feminist. If we\u2019re listening to some mainstream rapper on a major label we have the right to be offended as women. Whereas you\u2019re making a political statement using misogyny against misogyny. But you get more heat from it, because you\u2019re part of the feminist community.<\/p>\n BONES: I\u2019m not the fucking face of feminism. People say \u201cYou just set women back however many years\u201d or \u201cI gotta be afraid of a man now and I gotta watch out for these dykes!\u201d<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: As comments on the internet?<\/p>\n BONES: Internet or in conversation. I don\u2019t want to say that there\u2019s a difference from a man saying it than from me saying it.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: It\u2019s a man\u2019s right to his anger in Art, if Kanye West is angry at women\u2026?<\/p>\n BONES: What I\u2019m most upset about right now is how black men are bringing down dark skinned black women. In their lyrics, in interviews. I was a big fan of Dennis Rodman and then he said something–<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Is he a rapper?<\/p>\n BONES: He\u2019s a basketball player. Dennis Rodman, I loved that motherfucker! I wanted to be him and then he said something about black women and he kicked some woman out of his hotel room because she had a \u201cblack attitude.\u201d I never looked at him the same again. I took down all my posters. You look at ASAP Rocky\u2019s lyrics\u2026 all about white chicks. Light skinned this\u2026 Asap Rocky said something about how dark skinned women shouldn\u2019t wear red lipstick. Even with women they\u2019re terrible. Angel Haze said something about Azaelia Bank\u2019s skin color.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Like it was too dark?<\/p>\n BONES: Yeah, when they got into some beef on twitter I don\u2019t even know why I know this shit?!<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: What about someone like Azaelia Banks. I don\u2019t know what her sexual orientation is but I feel that she adopts lesbianism in a certain way, or even coopts it.<\/p>\n BONES: She has said that she is bisexual. More power to her but somebody tells me that they\u2019re bi\u2026 shout out to the bisexual community, but they\u2019re not gay. It\u2019s more acceptable for women to be bisexual.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: A female rapper is always courting a male audience as a sex object. As BONES you\u2019re not making yourself into a sex object. Although you are in a certain way, all rappers are because they\u2019re talking about sexualized things. Or rappers that are gay but their whole audience is still like straight women because that\u2019s how you make money.<\/p>\n BONES: Who are you referring to\u2026<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: You just hear things about how a lot of the hip hop industry is gay and closeted. It\u2019s like the \u201cno homo\u201d thing is so over the top.<\/p>\n BONES: Lil Wayne was another one that was against dark skinned women.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Really?<\/p>\n BONES: Half of these dudes\u2019 mothers, sisters and aunties, how you gonna disrespect? You\u2019re making a group of people feel unwanted and ugly, why? I could give a fuck because they\u2019re not my audience and I\u2019m not attracted to them, but I don\u2019t want the next generation to grow up feeling ugly. My mom already went through that shit, her mom probably went through that shit. When is it gonna stop?<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: One of the songs you did at Goddess Clap Back was about that right?<\/p>\n BONES: That song is called Darkie. It starts off with the Trinidad James sample, \u201cDark skin it Dark skin it.\u201d Maya Angelou\u2019s picture as a little girl for the cover. The lyrics go \u201cdarker than the night the slaves moved to the countryside, blacker than black I\u2019m like navy I\u2019m like purple right?\u201d I\u2019m saying all the things that people have said to me or my brother because we are dark. In my family everything from your skin color to navy exists. My great grandmother was part white. The family was color struck. Any light skin baby that would come out, \u201cSo pretty, so pretty.\u201d The baby could have came out looking like a fucking alien! If it was light-skinned, it was pretty. I rapped for some dudes overseas and I said \u201cnot a pretty bitch like that dude ASAP but I got a pretty bitch that like to pet my cat.\u201d People might think he\u2019s good looking with bone straight hair and his grills and shit, but that\u2019s not me anyways. I\u2019m not existing in that world.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: So you feel like there is a divide?<\/p>\n BONES: Take Kay Slay that white rapper from the west coast. We were going to open for her before hurricane Irene and that show got cancelled. They had us opening for her. She\u2019s great but I think it also gives her credibility to have these two hardcore lesbians open. Our music is more punk than hip hop.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: She\u2019s more PC?<\/p>\n BONES: She\u2019s pop, super talented. But everybody moves to NY to have that edge. I think it makes you more credible than coming from Oregon. How many fucking rappers do you know that come from Oregon? Shout out!<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: People are going to write you off immediately if you\u2019re white and you don\u2019t lay claim to some legitimate hood\u2026<\/p>\n BONES: We have Macklemore. I don\u2019t give a fuck what color you are you could be purple. The fact that Macklemore is using what mainstream power he\u00a0has to say “stop with the hatred” is great. I don\u2019t put any struggle up next to any other. I don\u2019t put any genocide next to another. You had a lot of people saying Macklemore is exploiting the gay community. He didn\u2019t have to say shit, he is standing up for us.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Do you ever feel like that works in your favor?<\/p>\n BONES: No, I feel like if Ally was to go and get a record deal she\u2019d get a record deal faster because she\u2019s white.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: We\u2019re all kind of tired of people talking about selling out and cooption and commodification and companies but it\u2019s true. A lot of the really important innovations in arts do start in the gay community but the money never makes it back there.<\/p>\n BONES: Yeah but they have stylists and those stylists are —<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Prowling around the underground\u2026<\/p>\n BONES: GAY!<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Or gay people making money but they\u2019re still not the face of it because the face still needs to be white barbie or black beast. But it\u2019s still not easy to be a black male unless you\u2019re one of the chosen few who gets put on a pedestal.<\/p>\n BONES: Chief Keef came out, he was doing something nobody else was doing\u2026<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: What do you think he was doing? Your words.<\/p>\n BONES: Simplifying things. Even simpler than they were before, if that\u2019s possible. In his videos it just seems so real, he and his friends together, bonding and having a good time.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Like he was somehow pure in a way…but not in a pure way because he was so fucked up\u2026 and that\u2019s what we crave\u2026<\/p>\n BONES: Well that\u2019s what we\u2019re being fed. If a kid grows up only eating McDonald\u2019s than they\u2019re addicted to it. The person that\u2019s feeding us is the Chief Keefs and the Juicy J\u2019s and the countless others.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Ghettocentric rap.<\/p>\n BONES: Kind of mindless fucking shit. I grew up on RAGE AGAINST THE FUCKING MACHINE. I thought that muthafucka was about to start a revolution and now fast forward 2013 and\u2026<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Rewind!<\/p>\n BONES: Where are we?<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: The trap house.<\/p>\n BONES: It can\u2019t be like every conscious rapper has horrible beats \u2013 I can\u2019t stand that!<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Seriously!! We\u2019re healthy and spiritual and sometimes\u2026 all we want to do is swear and listen to Juicy J and Chief Keef. We like the beats. We like the music that makes us dance.<\/p>\n BONES: I like shit that makes me laugh.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: I want to say the misogynist lyric and claim it as mine, there is pleasure and power in that. Angel Haze saying \u201cRather be a dick than a swallower.\u201d I heard her say that first and then I realized \u2013 okay – that\u2019s Kanye West.<\/p>\n BONES: I always picture myself in the ring with the greatest rappers \u2013 Tupac, Biggie Smalls, Eminem even Jay Z for a while there was like\u2026<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Because they had both, they had hot music and a message\u2026<\/p>\n BONES: Their play on words was like incredible.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: What about your fashion? Style of course can be a dangerous factor in rap, artistry compressed down to control through endorsements. Maybe it\u2019s a good thing. Let\u2019s think about the Tribe.<\/p>\n BONES: If I could have a stylist I would. My best friend designed the tribal costume for me and she has a brilliant mind.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Go! Push Pops (noticing Char is wearing a Push Pops shirt).<\/p>\n BONES: I get so many compliments on this shirt. But fuck that shit. What I think I look good in and what is the most comfortable for me. I hate socks. I fucking hate socks. I can\u2019t have nail polish on my fingers. I don\u2019t give a fuck. I\u2019m not like an outcast I\u2019m fucking thirty years old. My mom is like, \u201cWell you got tattoos now, you got these piercings, how are you ever gonna get a job?\u201d<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: You have a job!<\/p>\n BONES: I think she\u2019s given up on me ever being a doctor or a lawyer. I could rap for thirty more years and never make any money off of it and that\u2019s fine. I just recently sent out to the higher power that I want to start making money doing what I am doing. He\u2019s getting signed for three million and I can\u2019t even get fifty dollars off a show?<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Everyone wants you to perform and they just want you to bring an audience or an energy and think that can happen for free\u2026<\/p>\n BONES: Exactly. Or be a jester.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: At a certain point you have to say NO!<\/p>\n BONES: You\u2019re not going to get paid for everything because sometimes there isn\u2019t any money in it but know when there is.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: And how to ask\u2026<\/p>\n BONES: I can\u2019t remember who did the queer rap article. There were no women in the article. How are you covering queer rap? And this shouldn\u2019t be a special edition. These people should have been put on a long time ago they should be up next to fucking Kendrick Lamar.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: People are saying we haven\u2019t had a strong female mc in a while and yet the popular new \u201cfemale MCs\u201d are gay males like Mykki Blanco or Cakes Da Killa. But shit though, we probably listen to mostly male rappers. We\u2019re not immune to that spell.<\/p>\n BONES: Listen shout out to Drake – he\u2019s doing IT. I don\u2019t care what anybody says, he is the softest rapper alive and I think he\u2019s a genius. ASAP Ferg – his work is fucking awesome. Crystal Caines, a female, produced a lot of that on his record.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Do people know that?<\/p>\n BONES: I don\u2019t think so, but he shouts her out. Honestly fuck ASAP Rocky. Put that on paper.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Teaching all the hipsters to pat themselves on the back for doing drugs.<\/p>\n BONES: I don\u2019t know any of these guys personally so I\u2019m not going to comment on where they came from or what they went though. All I know is that when Wu Tang was talking about sleeping 5 deep in a one bedroom apartment I believe that shit to be true. Putting fucking water in cereal.<\/p>\n But yeah shout out to Rihanna she\u2019s fucking sexy as hell now.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: We love her, would you say she is a rapper?<\/p>\n BONES: She\u2019s not a rapper. I think she could be but at the end of the day is Drake a rapper? It\u2019s all about positivity. I respect everybody you know I do.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: You just waste so much energy on resentment you have to be grateful for what you have\u2026<\/p>\n BONES: You do!!<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: They say gratitude is an open door to abundance.<\/p>\n BONES: I like that. You have to work on your demons. Shout out to Angel Haze with \u201cClean out Her Closet.\u201d That was a very deep song that\u2019s probably the realest shit I heard in a very long time. I sit and I wonder why do I still kind of feel stuck? Why am I still working in retail with these people? Why am I still working this job where I\u2019m like servicing these these people with so much entitlement who think I should be like shining they\u2019re shoes for free? Clearly I haven\u2019t learned something yet that\u2019s how I take it. The abuse of power! No respect for money, no respect for people\u2019s time and energy, no understanding.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Rap world feeds on the new\u2026 this is the new artist and the new hot jacket and the new shoes and it\u2019s just going to cycle with no real respect for artists as human beings.<\/p>\n BONES: You\u2019re a robot\u2026<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Self-destruction. Miley Cyrus: she\u2019s doing what she\u2019s doing now because did she ever really have a real identity? Her whole life has been media hype.<\/p>\n BONES: I don\u2019t know what the fucking huff and puff about Miley Cyrus is…people see Push Pops and they\u2019re like floored.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: We get shit too!<\/p>\n BONES: That\u2019s another thing, just talking about sex. A lot of things that we say is taken as misogynistic when it\u2019s actually just me talking about sex openly as a woman. I\u2019m talking about what\u2019s happening in MY BED, WITH MY LIFE. I\u2019m happy about Zebra Katz and Mykki Blanco. At the end of the day they are still both males. It all has to do with me as a black female trying to make it in the music industry. Shout out to whatever Iggy Azaelia is doing.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: We need to look at the larger picture and see how there\u2019s gatekeeping going on.<\/p>\n BONES: Ooh I was so pissed off when I don\u2019t know who fucking called her the next Tupac\u2026<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Iggy Azaelia?<\/p>\n BONES: We\u2019re all missing Tupac. I drew pictures of that motherfucker up on my wall. My mom cried when he died but we\u2019re gonna \u2013 it\u2019s not Iggy Azaelia – no she\u2019s not filling it. I\u2019m sorry.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Journalists are vultures. Headlines that insight anger or desire or both. Iggy Azaelia is just a pop star.<\/p>\n BONES: There is that little white girl who wants to look up to somebody. I appreciate her for what she is. At the end of the day it\u2019s fear and that\u2019s what bothers me. I\u2019m not going to compare what happened with the queer community with what happened with the black community but I am gonna say how dare somebody who\u2019s been oppressed oppress another group of people? How dare you to get rights and find a job and whatever else (your ass just got a job! you\u2019re just able to date a fucking white girl!) What makes you so high and mighty?<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: If you\u2019re really fighting to change society maybe you\u2019re not going to be happy. Lauryn Hill is going to jail for tax evasion. The media\u2019s saying she\u2019s crazy. Maybe she\u2019s just speaking up about what it\u2019s like to be black even if you\u2019re a superstar.<\/p>\n BONES: Let\u2019s not forget Lauryn Hill is still a person. She had gone through a relationship that seemed very up and down and then he left her for a white lady. She\u2019s another creative genius. She didn\u2019t go crazy, she\u2019s being a human. She\u2019s dealing with it. She has emotions.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: And that\u2019s interpreted as crazy if she\u2019s emotional\u2026<\/p>\n BONES: If people don\u2019t like your opinion they just say \u201cyou\u2019re being crazy.\u201d<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Speaking the truth in a society that\u2019s painful.<\/p>\n BONES: Exactly and they dismiss you. I identify with my masculine side and I\u2019m in touch with my feminine side. As a little girl you\u2019re told so many things that you shouldn\u2019t do, that you can\u2019t do. Gotta watch out for this weirdo\u2026you\u2019re like constantly watching your vagina and your ass.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Taught to see all men as predators and perverts.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: I think community really is the answer. Hip hop is the tribe and it\u2019s pushing people to come together. There are artists who have stood up for radical change and made a difference. You can just sing about drugs if you want but how is that contributing to society?<\/p>\n BONES: Gone are the days of like people fucking getting together and marching. I don\u2019t believe in violence but when Malcolm X had something to say people were going outside and listening. Where are the leaders of the world right now? All corrupt and fraudulent and consuming!!<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Music entails power and leadership. There is a certain responsibility. I don\u2019t believe in censoring rappers but I do believe in holding them accountable. Rick Ross – who really cares? There\u2019s plenty of rappers that could have said that about date rape. He was just sleepwalking through some flow, it wasn\u2019t even his song. I do think it was good that everybody was like \u201cHold up!\u201d Women are getting date raped all the time and this is a good time to bring this up and start questioning it so the youth don\u2019t just listen to this and take it for granted and think that it\u2019s normal.<\/p>\n BONES: When Tyler the Creator came out all these people were listening to his music and they were taking what he said about raping women seriously!!<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: It\u2019s ironic or something. But if you\u2019re not on that next level thinking you might just think it\u2019s cool to rape women right? At the same time Tyler gets that extra layer of something we won\u2019t give Rick Ross credit for. We need Ross to be really ghetto or we\u2019d have to admit that all hip hop is a type of theater. And stereotypes $ell!<\/p>\n BONES: I\u2019m just over what\u2019s going on in music right. It\u2019s boring for me.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: We need to tweak the format of these shows so there\u2019s a deeper interaction around the music. Everyone wants to go to that hot club! It\u2019s about so much more than getting drunk and hooking up with someone.<\/p>\n BONES: God that was like the worst show ever\u2026<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: I think it\u2019s hard for artists\u2026in NY everyone is only thinking about their self-interest. How do we combine forces? We\u2019re all independent we don\u2019t want to follow or compromise our creative integrity. A lot of people are saying they want to start something that\u2019s bigger than what we know of this scene of music right now. We want people to get more out of it and more of a sense of community coming together.<\/p>\n BONES: It\u2019s like when can we just live and occupy this space? I want to start a tribe.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Community really is the answer.<\/p>\n BONES: I\u2019ve always operated as a gang, I feel like that makes me stronger. I\u2019m able to operate by myself but I really do think that we need each other and we need to come together and just know each other.<\/p>\n PUSH POPS: Diamond Tribe!<\/p>\n![\"Photo](\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/posturemag.com\/online\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/03\/posture-11.jpg\")
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