![\"Ellenville](\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/posturemag.com\/online\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/09\/Ellenville-1.jpg\")
<\/a>\nAshlee and her boyfriend. Courtesy of Sam Centore.<\/p>\n
Demi Kampakis: Can you tell us a little bit about this film\u2019s inception\u2014how did you two meet and what was the inspiration for \u201cPassing Ellenville\u201d?<\/strong><\/p>\n Sam Centore:<\/strong> Well Gene and I had actually met at a lecture given by Dustin Lance Black [screenwriter for the Academy Award winning film Milk] on personal narrative in telling history, and at the time Gene had already started a photo essay on these kids, but wanted to do a documentary. So we had talked about how we could tell these two peoples\u2019 stories in a short documentary form, and the rest went from there.<\/p>\n Had you met the subjects prior to filming? It\u2019s sort of like that \u2018old, white-liberal-hippie\u2019 when you talk about liberals in this kind of area. So part of our inspiration certainly stemmed from the question; \u201cWhat does it mean to be open-minded in this day and age?\u201d It\u2019s no longer just about the economy, war and government politics.<\/p>\n DK: Your comment definitely reminds me of James\u2019 statement in the film, where he says \u201cThey have respect for me, and are changing the pronouns, but they don\u2019t really SEE me.\u201d Do you think his point ties into that outdated definition of being liberal; the flawed notion that \u2018tolerance\u2019 is enough rather than embracing true acceptance and equality? SC:<\/strong> When we were filming we were definitely thinking about the ideas of acceptance vs. tolerance and geography, and even though Ellenville is fairly close to the more affluent towns of Woodstock and Hudson, there\u2019s nothing in Ellenville that would make non-residents pass through it. It\u2019s kind of a small, economically depressed town, so there\u2019s not a lot of resources and exposure, especially when it comes to issues of gender identity.<\/p>\n DK: Like Ashlee had said in the film, \u201cthis town doesn\u2019t seem to really care about itself\u201d\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n GF:<\/strong> Since both James and Ashlee are on Medicaid, the government is paying for their hormone treatments, so that\u2019s one silver lining. But when I first met James he was fighting with all the therapists because he found himself having to educate them on trans identification. So even if you want to help yourself by willing to commit to therapy (which is a necessary step during the transition process), you still have to spend 6 months trying to convince these health professionals to assign you a different therapist, all the while having to correct them when being identified as a lesbian. It\u2019s pretty horrific.<\/p>\n By some miracle, James was able to find an endocrinologist on the Upper East Side who took Medicaid, which is near to impossible when it comes to doctors willing to treat trans people. And luckily, Ashlee also finally found a doctor closer to her hometown. Having to consistently travel to the city puts such an immense financial burden on both of them.<\/p>\n SC:<\/strong> Yet at the same time we\u2019re watching both be extremely resourceful due to their past and present circumstances, which is very humbling to witness.<\/p>\n DK: Your film really sheds light onto the experiences of being trans while living in an impoverished town\u2014that cross-section of marginalization, if you will. How do you think James and Ashlee would learn to navigate their trans identity if they lived in a more urban setting?<\/strong><\/p>\n GF:<\/strong> We started noticing that when taken out of his environment, James maintained his assertion over his identity. At the end of the film he says, \u201cThis is where I am, but I\u2019m not going to change.\u201d With James, there\u2019s definitely a confidence in the way he aligns himself, and regardless of his environment or the prevalence of masculine traits he still strongly identifies as a man. Whereas Ashlee has trouble identifying as a woman, and really needs a boyfriend or makeup, clothes etc. to help her feel feminine.<\/p>\n DK: Speaking of, I noticed how throughout the film, Ashlee would throw around these self-deprecating and politically incorrect terms to describe herself, such as \u201ctranny\u201d. What does it mean in terms of progress for trans equality when a member of the community employs such terms? Do you think this is a direct result of the environment she lives in?<\/strong><\/p>\n SC:<\/strong> In Ellenville, you have to take it out of an offensive context because there\u2019s much less nuance, you know? Like when she\u2019s angry she blurts out, \u201cDo you want me to look like a manly tranny?!\u201d There\u2019s less of a filter and \u2018sensitivity\u2019 amongst the small queer community in this town\u2026 the brevity of self-deprecation is less of an issue for them, which is certainly a reflection of their surroundings, yes.<\/p>\n I mean, we\u2019ve showed people the film where they\u2019ve asked \u201cDo you really want to show people this film, isn\u2019t Ashlee somewhat of a bad influence?\u201d But I think it\u2019s important to show someone like her and someone like James, to reveal the full spectrum of personalities.<\/p>\n GF:<\/strong> She\u2019s definitely a product of her environment. She doesn\u2019t really have a sense of what it means to be politically correct, because she\u2019s in a town that essentially traps and sucks her in. Ashlee wants to leave, but at the moment she\u2019s homeless and couch-surfing. How is she able to attend support groups and meetings to better educate herself, when these meetings take place in the next town over? Residents of Ellenville can barely afford cars, let alone find a way to travel out of town when there isn\u2019t any sophisticated form of public transportation whatsoever. And I don\u2019t think Ashlee\u2019s case is unique at all.<\/p>\n DK: On that note, the tone of \u201cPassing Ellenville\u201d is very reminiscent of Boys Don\u2019t Cry in terms of identity, struggles, and socio-economic oppression. Even though \u201cPassing Ellenville\u201d is a documentary, did that film ever cross your mind when shooting?<\/strong><\/p>\n GF:<\/strong> It didn\u2019t actually, but it seems like Brandon had much more wherewithal of both his circumstances and identity than Ashlee does.<\/p>\n SC:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s very important to not edit out moments of Ashlee struggling to use language in a positive way. It serves as a reminder of the \u201cmore rough around the edges\u201d aspect of the trans community, because those personalities exist everywhere.<\/p>\n GF:<\/strong> This is, in fact, a documentary\u2014and I think I used to be more sensitive to that fact whenever Ashlee would curse, or employ crass terminology. Hopefully audiences will be smart enough to understand where\u2019s she\u2019s coming from, and what has propelled her to say the things she says. As Sam said, you can\u2019t edit out these moments, because then the film would lose its authenticity. She simply doesn\u2019t know, or have the resources to understand\u2014it\u2019s just not in her purview right now.<\/p>\n DK: Do you think that the movement for trans equality has become what the gay rights movement was years ago?<\/strong><\/p>\n GF:<\/strong> I think it should be.<\/p>\n DK: Have we reached that point yet? DK: It seems that the mainstream represents the transgender community in this very urbane, sophisticated context. Take Laverne Cox, for example, who is incredibly intelligent, articulate and talented and has essentially become the face of the community, and rightly so. Yet we fail to see other personalities be represented; as though a perfectly polished persona is the only way to legitimatize the movement in the eyes of nay-sayers. It seems slightly over-compensatory, but what I love about your film is how you explore a more humanistic aspect as well, to encompass the entire spectrum. Was this the dialogue you wanted to achieve for the film?<\/strong><\/p>\n SC:<\/strong> Well, I think you said it perfectly! [laughs] But yes, we were actually discussing Laverne Cox recently, and how she\u2019s almost portrayed as this sexy, foxy \u2018glamazon\u2019 compared to the other prisoners. Which is why we included the footage where Ashlee admits that for her, being transgender means adhering to that picturesque image. However, those scenes also have a subtext to them\u2014that such perfection is unrealistic and by no means the sole criteria for trans identification.<\/p>\n GF:<\/strong> For Ashlee, that glossy image is her own personal way of finding acceptance. And James is the exact opposite, which is partly why they no longer speak to one another. The two used to be inseparable, and once James started his hormone therapy he became much more comfortable in his own skin, and as such started fighting Ashlee and her belief systems. Which is really sad, because the two could really use each other.<\/p>\n DK: Ashlee comes from an Orthodox background, and she struggles in aligning her gender identity with her faith. Does Ashlee receive support from the Orthodox Jewish community where she lives?<\/strong><\/p>\n GF:<\/strong> Sort of. There are different levels within Judaism, and even so within the Orthodox community. There\u2019s a very strong conservative faction within Ashlee\u2019s temple, but there are also people who are more open-minded. It was heartbreaking to witness Ashlee not being allowed to sit with the other women. Finally, Ashlee\u2019s friend\/foster mother went to the local ACLU and notified them that Ashlee had felt uncomfortable and threatened. In turn, the organization wrote a letter to the synagogue, and Ashlee was ultimately allowed to sit with the other women.<\/p>\n Ellenville is a heavily Jewish-populated town, and on the outskirts of town live many of the older residents who are part of the Jewish community.<\/p>\n SC:<\/strong> As you see in the film, the town center is pretty run down, but the outskirts more so resemble the suburbs; where the homes at least have lawns\u2014<\/p>\n GF:<\/strong> \u2014but closer to town, the majority of residents are on welfare, many of them are drug addicts, etc. There isn\u2019t as much of a Jewish presence there. I remember going one Friday afternoon to my car to get equipment, and was harassed by drug dealers who thought I was filming them. They were selling drugs to two moms in a minivan!<\/p>\n SC:<\/strong> We say \u2018Oh, you know Ashlee would obviously be more accepted if she lived in a place like Manhattan\u2019, for instance. But you also wonder if Ashlee even lived in one of the more suburban areas on the outskirts of town, would she be more accepted in the synagogue? Is it just gender, or is it gender and income? Plus, Ashlee\u2019s synagogue asks for member contributions, which she simply cannot afford.<\/p>\n DK: Has Ashlee reached that state of peace between her religion and her gender identity?<\/strong><\/p>\n SC:<\/strong> I feel that she has reached that peace within herself, but I also think that what gives you a sense of identity in a religious context is the community you\u2019re surrounded by, and in that sense Ashlee is still fragmented.<\/p>\n GF:<\/strong> You still see that fragmentation even in the way she dresses. For the first 8 months of filming Ashlee would wear what she called her \u201cJewish outfit\u201d, which was a long denim skirt to the ground, sleeves that covered up her arms, and her Star of David. As her transition was progressing, Ashlee started doing a lot of laser hair removal and other procedures that made her look more feminine, and subsequently began to dress less religiously.<\/p>\n She goes back and forth a lot: either she identifies as an Orthodox Jewish woman, or as the girlfriend of someone. She still refers to her ex-boyfriend as her husband, it helps her identify as a woman if she can say she\u2019s with a man, which is somewhat unfortunate considering her choice of suitors.<\/p>\n DK: So what\u2019s the next step going forward?<\/strong><\/p>\n SC:<\/strong> Well aside from working our regular jobs [chuckles], we\u2019ve begun to film Ashlee more in depth, it\u2019s amazing to see her grow and evolve and come into her own.<\/p>\n GF:<\/strong> We\u2019re going deeper into her story with her religion, her relationship to her foster mother, and basically just viewing Ashlee in a different light. Plus, we\u2019re working on increasing our distribution through more film festivals and possibly a cable network, as well as reaching a wider audience with our upcoming documentary on Amy. We\u2019re very excited.<\/p>\n http:\/\/vimeo.com\/100778369<\/p>\n Featured Image courtesy of Sam Centore.<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" \u201cPassing Ellenville\u201d is a documentary that stays true to its name, as it provides a small passing glimpse of two young people coming to terms with their gender identities amidst the life struggles that surround this process. Produced, written and co-directed by Gene Fischer, and filmed and co-directed by Sam Centore, this 16 minute film\u2026<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":5326,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":true,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[2065],"tags":[1366],"yst_prominent_words":[],"class_list":["post-5325","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-culture","tag-demi-campais"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/posturemag.com\/online\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/09\/Ellenville-Cover.jpg?fit=867%2C488","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p6QBV8-1nT","_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/posturemag.com\/online\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5325","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/posturemag.com\/online\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/posturemag.com\/online\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/posturemag.com\/online\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/posturemag.com\/online\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=5325"}],"version-history":[{"count":12,"href":"http:\/\/posturemag.com\/online\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5325\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":11191,"href":"http:\/\/posturemag.com\/online\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5325\/revisions\/11191"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/posturemag.com\/online\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/5326"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/posturemag.com\/online\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=5325"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/posturemag.com\/online\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=5325"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/posturemag.com\/online\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=5325"},{"taxonomy":"yst_prominent_words","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/posturemag.com\/online\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yst_prominent_words?post=5325"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
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\nGene Fischer:<\/strong> I had already met James after helping him cover the costs to attend the Woodstock writer\u2019s festival, and he soon opened up a world to me through Ashlee, his best friend at the time. It was at this time that we also met Amy. Ellenville is about 40 minutes from Woodstock, the latter being this very liberal, arts community that\u2019s been around since the \u201820s. You can\u2019t get more liberal there\u2026EXCEPT when it comes to LGBTQ issues. It\u2019s just not on their agenda, which is really frustrating. So we\u2019ve been helping the Woodstock festival with implementing LGBTQ programming. You know, if it were something about climate change or politics, you\u2019d get people throwing money at you. But when it comes to LGBTQ issues, it\u2019s a blank stare. It\u2019s kind of amazing in a really sad way, the way it just doesn\u2019t register.<\/p>\n
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\nGF:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s a really good way to distinguish the two. Having traveled around Woodstock for the past nine years, I see tolerance everywhere. As a forty-something gay man, I had to deal with these issues about 20 years ago, and only now am I starting to see actual acceptance regarding sexuality in this area. But with these trans-identified kids, it\u2019s definitely still tolerance. Even within the LGBTQ community\u2014from those who should be their allies\u2014these kids are still not fully embraced.<\/p>\n
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\nGF:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s just starting. When I started the photo project about 6 months before working with Sam, there really was no mention of this at all. Now you have OITNB, and I remember The New Yorker did a profile of a 16 year old FTM named Skyler who had the utmost support from his parents during his transition, so it\u2019s certainly starting. There are many organizations trying to bring trans awareness to the state assembly in the same way gay rights have been, and they just keep getting shut down.<\/p>\n