Making its world premiere at last month’s OutFest in LA, LYLE welcomed a myriad of critical praise and an enthusiastic audience reception; garnering an impressive amount of hype in just a few short weeks. A lesbian ode to Rosemary’s Baby, director Stewart Thorndike’s sinister feature debut stars Gaby Hoffman (Girls, Obvious Child) as Leah, a pregnant lesbian confronted by an unspeakable evil. Thorndike finds the perfect mom-to-be in Hoffman, who took home the Grand Jury Best Actress Award for her committed and electrifying central performance, one that is infused with a primal terror difficult to shake. Leah and her wife June (Ingrid Jungermann) have found the perfect Brooklyn brownstone apartment for them, their infant daughter Lyle, and their next daughter with whom Leah is pregnant. Despite the weird neighbors, the couple fall in love with their new life…but the domestic bliss is cut short when a terrible tragedy strikes.
Still from LYLE, directed by Stewart Thorndike.
Those familiar with Rosemary’s Baby will recognize many of Lyle’s narrative parallels, but that isn’t to say that this contemporary homage strictly follows the storytelling recipe of its predecessor, for Thorndike cleverly reimagines certain motifs that offer the film a sufficient degree of unpredictability. Her razor-sharp camerawork is marvelously withholding: for it’s what you don’t see that adds to the film’s palpable tension and escalating sense of unease. Yet above all, it’s Hoffman’s deadpan performance and visceral poker-faced resoluteness that shines; effectively sparing the film from entering campy territory. Her emotional heft is versatile and nothing short of engrossing, as she offers a balanced tone that deliciously borders on paranoid hysteria in the blink of an eye.
Clocking in at just under 65 minutes, this barely-feature-length art-house horror flick makes impressive use of its low budget and limited resources, crafting an unsettling tale of mistrust, fear and suspicion that’s surprisingly engaging and satisfying. And for those of you who prefer to experience Lyle’s atmospheric paranoia right from your own home, delight in the news that this moody slice of terror is now available to stream for FREE on your computer.
Foregoing traditional distribution methods,
Thorndike and Lyle producer Alex Scharfman have chosen to self-distribute the film, offering viewers the chance to stream the film for free on its official website* starting August 4th, coinciding with the duration of their Kickstarter campaign for Putney, Thorndike’s second film in a trilogy of female-focused art-house horror. The decision to stream Lyle for free is part of the filmmaker’s mission to reach a broader audience for female-centric genre films, with the hope that those who enjoyed Lyle will feel inspired to support Putney’s Kickstarter campaign by donating. Fresh off the film’s festival success, I had the chance to interview Thorndike—and was eager to pick her brain on the filming of Lyle, the future of self-distribution, and the need for more female driven horror.
Demi Kampakis: Congrats on the success of Lyle! On the day of its NYC screening at NewFest, the theater was absolutely packed to the point where people had to actually sit on the floors and stairs!
Stewart Thorndike: [chuckles] Yeah, it’s really amazing that our little film was embraced with such a positive reception. It’s a real dream.
DK: What first drew you to genre films, and what is it about horror specifically that appeals to you?
ST: My background in photography and fine arts definitely fostered my attraction for genre films—especially horror—because they allow for great stylistic expression. To me, horror isn’t about violent gore, but rather about supernatural elements and the psychological implications. The experimental nature of horror films can be a sensual experience for audiences, and I love how each film is able to convey a very particular world.
DK: As a filmmaker, had you always been drawn to the niche of female-driven horror, or to queer genre films?
ST: Hm, I don’t think I ever thought particularly about either. I always liked horror—not the horror that’s around now with all this sadism stuff—but classics like The Haunting. Yet with female horror, there really isn’t much of it—at least not enough that I can remember being drawn to it specifically. I would love to see more if it done though [chuckles].
DK: I must admit that prior to LYLE, I hadn’t really heard the term ‘female-focused horror’ being used. What does that term mean to you?
ST: Well actually, when I first made LYLE I didn’t realize that the types of films I would be making were going to be considered niche or unique, and I also didn’t know that there were no women making horror, until people started pointing it out. So I stopped and I thought about it, and I could only count like 2 or 3 mainstream horror films that were female directed—I don’t even think you can consider American Psycho since it doesn’t have any supernatural motifs—so the term was created as a way to say “boys aren’t the only ones who should be doing it” [chuckles]. It simply means having a female lead, and having a female voice behind the story.
I thought it was interesting in LYLE how there was an older woman who was interested in getting pregnant. The women in the audience knew of course that she was too old to have a child, but it can be less obvious for men to catch these nuances. So it’s important to preserve those female experiences that haven’t really stayed in horror films.
DK: Speaking of, I love how your film reimagines the terror away from the hetero-normative realm, and cleverly re-appropriates the common male first-born motif through the use of female infants…
ST: …I’m glad you picked up on that, because many people don’t [chuckles].
DK: How did you come up with the idea to use female babies? Was that an intentional gender re-appropriation, or did it just happen to fall into place once you finished writing?
ST: No I definitely thought about it! It was even a joke in my head, like “the devil is sexist” [laughs]. You think about the first-born son all the time, and I thought “Any need for a first-born daughter, even within the supernatural? I mean, I know we want virgins, but why not a virgin first-born daughter?” I definitely got excited while writing, because I wanted some kind of [social] commentary on boys being more valued than girls, even in the eyes of the devil.
DK: How was the story for this film first conceived [no pun intended]? Did you have Rosemary’s Baby in mind when writing the screenplay, or did you notice the parallels once you had finished drafting the script?
ST: It was the latter; you know the funny story is I was actually dating Ingrid Jungermann at the time (June). We were going through a hard time, and I was pissed at her once while I was in the shower and she was off somewhere. I really wanted to have a kid, and she didn’t, so I remember thinking “She’s bad…she’s stopping me from having my babies!” And then I had this whole story that kind of just came into my head, so I quickly got out of the shower and jotted everything down. It was when I took a look at my notes that I realized, “Oh, I’ve just written Rosemary’s Baby!” I kind of cued that ‘badabump!’ drumroll in my head, and thought how cool it was that what I had written was a totally different perspective, yet still maintained that idea of someone stopping you from having a baby.
DK: Considering that the concept for LYLE was originally developed as a 9-part web series, what made you ultimately want to present its story in film form?
ST: Well, I was trying to make my first feature a genre film also with female leads, and at that time we went through the traditional fundraising route. We had a really great cast and crew attached, who were ready to go thinking that we had the money, but somehow it all fell through which was really devastating. At this time, I was still with Ingrid, and I would just look at her while she kept churning out all this creative productivity on her own terms, and finally I thought, “Well I’m going to do that!”
Meanwhile, I also had my story for LYLE, which I had written as a low budget feature to make. Having already known Gaby by this point, I said to her, “Well why not just do a web series? I don’t want to sit around and ask for anyone’s permission, or try to find money from people who aren’t going to get it.” At least with a web series you’re allowed to be a bit ‘scrappier’ and condense the story. However, once we finished shooting and I saw the footage, I realized it was a bit better than I had anticipated for the amount of money we made it for. Not to mention that it worked better to see the story as one discreet unit, you know? With horror you kind of just want to go into it 100 percent, so we were inspired to shoot a few more days, and the idea for a trilogy came later.
DK: How did you first reach out to Gaby Hoffman for this film?
ST: Well I had known her socially a bit, and I had really wanted to work with her, so I decided to reach out to her when writing LYLE. We were discussing the film during the first time we hung out alone, and I remember her scratching her head saying “Well I don’t get why people have to die.” She wasn’t really into horror [chuckles], but she was totally game and a complete trooper. I mean, she really is such a brilliant artist.
DK: Definitely. The range of emotions she provides with her face is completely absorbing, so much so that you can’t help but feel her paranoia.
ST: Yes!
DK: I love how you chose to self-distribute the film, opting for the ‘content accessibility route’ over conventional distribution and profit. Your option to allow the film to stream for free really embodies this grassroots spirit of indie filmmaking that to some extent creates a collective cinematic community. In light of all the positive film festival feedback for LYLE, what prompted you to make this risky fiscal decision?
ST: The incredible response definitely made me doubt the ‘online for free’ strategy, because I now had an inbox full of all these interested distributors! I basically bankrupted myself making this movie, and it was really hard to turn down the possibility of maybe making some money back from it. But that was never really the spirit of why we made this film; and I’ve seen so many films go to Sundance and do really well in the festival circuit, but just kind of sit in that distribution limbo. And maybe they do get distribution, but you kind of didn’t see their movies, or you have to wait a year, etc. etc. I never wanted that, and I was tired of sitting in meetings with people who didn’t know what to do with my work—because I mean, outside of the gay and female domains, my work is a bit more art-house horror. I don’t know, my tone is weird and I’m kind of doing something different (at least that’s what people tell me), so I just wanted to see if maybe there was a new way of viewership that would work.
DK: And it did! In fact, when I was first researching this film before NewFest, the only information I had to go by was a synopsis on The Film Society of Lincoln Center’s lineup, and one brief clip provided by The Hollywood Reporter—I couldn’t even find a trailer! But ever since its success at these festivals, I’ve come across countless pages of articles on Google with trailers, clips, reviews, anything and everything. Do you think that the greater audience awareness and appreciation afforded by the ‘stream for free’ option can be more gratifying than profit?
ST: It’s really great to hear about that change in audience trend from your perspective, because from my end I’m like, “Did we just make a huge mistake?” Because now we’re kind of solely counting on crowdfunding for our next film, but it’s only been day two so we’ll see.. [chuckles]
DK: Have we entered a new autonomous age of indie filmmaking and distribution, and if so do you think these platforms will ever cross over and gain momentum in the mainstream?
ST: I think there has to be a change, because the current model isn’t working. In terms of how that is going to shake into studio films, I can’t say for sure but I think that the whole system will need to be questioned. I don’t know…maybe there’s some way for artists to come together to collectively promote their films, and take control over where their work will be seen and how.
I feel like in other art forms there’s less of a pressure for moneymaking. Like it’s weird that what I make is the same as Transformers [chuckles], yet it’s also a billion dollar business. I just wish that there were more independent theaters, you know?
DK: One of the reasons the film works so well is that it’s able to seamlessly incorporate genuinely funny moments with deadpan emotion and biting suspense. Is it difficult to navigate humor in a thriller film without undermining its cerebral gravitas, or making it seem campy?
ST: Well I think anything that’s good—whether it is a book or a film—has some type of humor in it…basically anything that examines the human condition will always be funny. But yes, it can definitely be hard sometimes to achieve a level of ‘funny’ when you’re trying really hard to be real and true, while also straining to avoid any campiness. It can be stressful to reach that ‘pitch perfect’ level where the tone is just right.
DK: But that is exactly why Hoffman is so perfect for the role!
ST: I agree. What’s so great about her as an actor is that she believes everything she says, and she says it with heart.
DK: In addition to the camerawork, your film makes use of some impressive stylistic techniques, such as the use of a Skype split screen (complete with that frustrating connection lag) and beautiful CGI footage of a fetus in utero. Had you strongly collaborated with your cinematographer and/or DP when envisioning these visual elements?
ST: Well I have a certain style where I like a lot of movement, even if it’s strange movement. My DP was amazing; he would throw light around in a way that made everything look more beautiful than I could’ve dreamed of. He’s also a friend of mine, so even though we didn’t have much time to collaborate it was easy to communicate with him and throw our ideas around. By no means did we spend days storyboarding that look; it was basically a style that was natural to the movie.
DK: And with the camerawork, it was more of what you don’t see that added to the tension.
ST: I love dance, and I always think of the camera as this organic entity that’s experiencing something itself. That’s not to say that it functions like a character, but it nonetheless provides its own emotion.
DK: I have to ask, where did you find the baby who played Lyle?! Not only does she have a face that was made for the camera, but she seemed so well-behaved and poised during her scenes. It was difficult to take your eyes off her whenever she was onscreen!
ST: I love that baby! I actually knew her mother, who is also an actress. It’s funny because you wouldn’t think that you would have to cast babies like you would adults, so at first I thought any toddler would do. But after meeting with some, I would be like “No, no, no.” They would be all girly, or have such curly angelic hair, or something like that. But the baby playing Lyle was perfect! So I guess it isn’t true that a baby is just a baby [chuckles]. I ended up being surprisingly picky.
DK: Between the film’s self-distribution, female-centric representation, and diverse perspectives; would you consider yourself a maverick filmmaker? I know this is a difficult question for someone to answer about themselves, but would you at least consider this to be a maverick film—especially since there aren’t as many opportunities for female filmmakers in the industry, particularly in Hollywood. Okay, maybe ‘cinematic trendsetter’ is a better term..
ST: I don’t know, I haven’t really thought about that [laughs]. But listen, I like being called a maverick [chuckles] but I wouldn’t necessarily describe myself as that. I just feel like there’s one way to do things: my way.
DK: It’s always refreshing to see queer films like LYLE, where sexual and gender identity aren’t the narrative focal points, but instead serve auxiliary roles. Do you think there’s a lack of such films within the LGBTQ community, and if so are we moving towards more ‘normalized’ films where sexuality doesn’t serve a social purpose, but rather functions like a narrative tapestry?
ST: I definitely hope that we’re moving towards this trend. I personally can’t really relate to movies about people having a hard time being gay; I know they’re important, but it’s not an experience that I had to go through or relate with too much. For me, I would just rather see more films where that representation is more normalized because it’s important to show these characters as regular people who are a part of society; who have stories and struggles that are universal; instead of presenting it as though their sexuality is the only thing they think about all day long. We just need to be okay with our differences, and move on.
Plus, I never really have a political agenda at all—I just want to tell my stories. I date guys and girls, but when I want a film to be the most romantic, or the scariest, or the most emotional, I usually make it about two women. To me, women are the bigger, more complicated, emotional love.
DK: Since LYLE is the first in a trilogy of female-driven horror films, can you tell us a little bit about your next film “Putney”, in which you’re currently doing the Kickstarter campaign for?
ST: It’s a haunted TED Talk. It’s about this woman who gets inspired by this TED Talk about being vulnerable and connectivity, and decides to take her girlfriend—they’re having problems—and their estranged best friend to the hotel her mom used to run that’s now closed down for a couple of seasons. The strange best friend brings along an uninvited guest who ends up kind of ruining the special reunion. It gets weirder and weirder once they get up there. She injures her leg, and they kind of start to get bad advice from the TED Talk and how to handle this problem. At this point things only get stranger for our main character, and their situation turns to horror really fast. It gets bad [chuckles].
*Lyle is available to stream for free here now, and if you like what you see you can also make a donation to Putney’s Kickstarter campaign. For a little taste of what’s in store, check out Lyle’s chilling trailer below:
