Interview by Kate Cossolotto | Visual Arts Editor
Photographs by Lauren Renner
I first met photographer Lauren Renner when I interviewed Phoenix Lindsey-Hall at her studio in Newark, New Jersey last month. We successfully navigated the harrowing trek through Penn Station together during rush hour, and while on our train ride to Newark we discovered that we both had graduated from SUNY New Paltz; I had graduated in 2010 with a BA degree in Art History and Lauren graduated in 2012 with a BFA degree in Photography. I was thrilled to be given the opportunity to interview her and discuss her current project, In Others’ Words, which began in 2011 and aims to explore the connections between identity, human experience, and stereotyping. This project makes participants confront the labels that they have been branded with throughout their lives, as well as our own perceptions of other people. Participants are photographed after undergoing an intense body-writing process where they are marked with the words that they have been labeled during the course of their own lives, and then photographed with a large format view camera in a public location. Lauren hopes that through this project the participants are able to liberate themselves from the constraints of words. I recently sat down with Lauren to talk more in-depth about this project, as well as her influences, her thoughts on digital versus film photography, what it’s like navigating the NYC arts scene as an emerging artist, and how photography is able to examine issues that are difficult to discuss in other ways.
Kate Cossolotto: So tell me a little bit about your background.
Lauren Renner: I started photography when I was in high school actually, as a freshman. What happened was that I had gone to a private school my whole life—up until my freshman year of high school—so I sat down with my guidance counselor for the first time with my parents and he basically just threw me a list of classes and was like, “Pick whatever you think is cool for your electives.” Photography jumped out at me right away. I never played with it before so I said, “Oh, photography. This one.” He told me that freshman couldn’t really take photography; you usually enter as a Sophomore if you want to take the photo courses. I was bummed so I picked something else in its place. When my official schedule came though photography was on it, so I figured it must have been a fluke or something, but I decided that I was just going to lie to stay in the class.
Kate: So I guess it was meant to be.
Lauren: (laughs) Yeah, it was meant to be. So I was able to stay in the photo program in high school for all four years. In my last year, my teacher was like, “Wait a minute. I’ve had you for so long,” so I wound up lying for all four years. Every time we had a worksheet and it asked what grade you were in I would always put the year ahead and then just doubled up my senior year.
Kate: (laughs) That is so great. And then you went to SUNY New Paltz. What was it about New Paltz that drew you there? Was it the photography program?
Lauren: It was many things. I have some personal history there. My best friend Kate’s sister went there and was part of The Sexy Pitches [SUNY New Paltz a cappella group].
Kate: Oh yes, I know The Sexy Pitches.
Lauren: Yeah, so I had been visiting New Paltz since the 7th grade, checking it out, and I had looked at other places like Syracuse—their visual and performing arts program is awesome—but New Paltz just wound up being the perfect fit in terms of personal growth. Also, in terms of background, high school is when I started working in photography. I got my first internship in 11th grade for Andy Marcus who’s up on West 72nd. I was doing event-style work, and shortly thereafter met Patrick Demarchelier through a mutual family friend. Both Andy and Patrick continue to be my mentors to this day
Kate: Wow. I want to hear more about Patrick.
Lauren: (laughs) I have the utmost respect for that man. Even going beyond his artwork—I think we all respect his artwork—on a personal level he is in a position to not have to even look twice at someone like me who’s an emerging artist, and the message in my work doesn’t necessarily flow with the type of work that he’s doing. If anything it could be seen as something that’s combatting those morals. But he’s so kind and he makes time to sit down and talk with me and be present. He’s just incredible.
Kate: That’s really amazing and blows my mind. So how would you describe your artistic style?
Lauren: Right now my work is largely conceptually-based, especially my In Others’ Words project. I’ve heard people throw around terms like “edgy,” “activist art,” and “nakedallthetime” when referring to my photographs (laughs). If I had to put all of it in a box with a neat bow on top, I’d call it “fine art portraiture,” but really it’s all about not having a box, right? In practice, I try not to limit myself to only shooting one thing or another so I can stay sharp and adaptable. For instance, lately my day job has me shooting yogis and other athletes doing what they love (fully clothed). As an artist, constantly evolving and developing is part of the beauty of staying open to possibility and exploration. That’s the stage I’m currently at, and hopefully that never stops. Ask me again in another 3 years, and my answer might be different by then.
Kate: Who or what inspires you?
Lauren: A great deal of the visual inspiration for my artwork comes from modern dance, and theatrical performance. During my time as a student at Long Island High School for the Arts, I studied drama, and also designed stage lighting for student-run dance and theatre productions. At the time, I became wildly inspired by many of the modern dance performances I witnessed there, and as a result formed several muse relationships with some of my peers who were talented dancers. I learned how to study the human form through my camera by collaborating with them on our school stage. I would essentially turn it into my own massive studio space, asking them to run through certain dance numbers while I used the stage lighting systems to light them as though we were in a massive photography studio. It was an extremely formative time for me as an artist that has helped to inform and inspire many of my more recent works. Musicians also inspire me, as well as the work of other artists.
Kate: Which musicians?
Lauren: Macklemore, definitely, and Florence + the Machine. When we were with Phoenix [Lindsey-Hall] last week I think what she said was spot-on with how his [Macklemore] politics are 150% spot on, or at least gel with how I feel, and I think he brings a lot of messages to light through art. Art can have a conversation about things that can’t necessarily be had elsewhere. I think he found a really great way to do that. That’s where I draw my inspiration from, because I’m trying to use photography right now to examine certain issues that are hard to discuss otherwise.
Kate: Well now I want to discuss your current, on-going project, In Others’ Words. When did you start it and how did this idea come about?
Lauren: Interestingly, as I was still going through my process of pre-visualizing things, how that was sort of a system for me, that’s how it came to me. It was almost 3 years ago, maybe 2.5 years ago, I was sitting on my couch and this image came to me and it was a group of people walking down the street, a foggy street, and it was a triptych and it had writing on it. I didn’t know what the writing was and that ate away at me for about a year. I couldn’t figure it out but I knew I wanted to make that image. I had just started taking my large format class and some other digital photography classes, so I started to focus my attention more on the technical realm because I knew I wanted this to be on that next level when I made this image. And then the idea came to me for the words after I had just gone through this whole experience of dating my first girlfriend and I started to notice how I was starting to be identified a little bit differently by other people, even though in my own skin I didn’t feel it was necessarily changing who I was. It was just me embracing another part of myself. So that’s when I started to think, “Okay, how can I sort of recreate this experience that I’m having and apply it to other people?” And that’s when it clicked.
Kate: Describe the process of shooting In Others’ Words. What time do you start shooting? When does the writing on the body happen? Walk me through it, step-by-step.
Lauren: I’ll take an example of doing this project in New Paltz. Word about my shoot was gained through word-of-mouth, and since New Paltz is a small, tight-knit artistic community word spread like wildfire. The way I would organize it is that I would schedule my shoot to start at 5.45 in the morning. I just sent out a blanket statement saying, “Hey, I’m doing a shoot on Tuesday at 5.45 am,” so whoever wanted to come could just show up. And I would do it that early because the body-writing portion takes about 45 minutes and I wanted to shoot them right as the sun was coming up, both to avoid police presence as much as possible, and for lighting reasons too. The only thing I would ask of my models was to come with a pre-written list of 50-100 stereotypes that they had been labeled as throughout their lives. And when I say stereotypes it’s a loose term. Labels can be stereotypical, they can be personal, and they can be self-identified. So I mean pretty much anything that they have had experience with being labeled as during their lives. And then they would show up with those lists and then I would have them pair up organically as soon as we got to wherever we were doing the writing. It was either at the studio— in my apartment at that time—and then I’d have them take their clothes off and pair up organically and then write the words on each other’s bodies. Usually, on many occasions, the people showing up had never met before. I really wanted to encourage that with people just because I wanted to create an environment where their first interaction with each other was this vulnerable, intimate thing. You know what I mean? Not only on a physical level, but to use their nudity as a way to level the playing field with each other and make it a safe space, and also actually recreate the physical labeling by projecting one person’s ideas onto another. But let’s say you showed up for the shoot with your own list: only your words would go on your body. It’s not like I was having them look at each other…
Kate: And have them judge each other?
Lauren: (laughs) Right, it wasn’t like that. But what I found would happen during that whole process was that it would unify the group in a really special way, so that’s why I wanted to photograph them together afterwards. So I would transport them after the writing was done to a public, outdoor space of my choosing and then photograph them. So the whole process is about 2 to 2.5 hours.
Kate: Since this is a very emotional and intimate process what were the reactions like from the models? Was it positive? Was it awkward? Did they find it to be really freeing?
Lauren: Yeah, for the most part it’s been very positive. I’ve had them write to me saying that it was a life-changing experience for them. I’ve had them also make commentary on how scary it was at first. This is the type of thing that’s such an organic process. I’m not going out and outsourcing professional models for this. I want it to be real people who have to really be ready to experience what I’m asking them and to give that. And that’s a lot to give. And I’ve modeled for this project before so I would never ask that of someone if I hadn’t even done it myself. What was the other part to your question?
Kate: Just what the reactions have been like.
Lauren: Can I tell you the best reaction?
Kate: Yes.
Lauren: Okay, this is really cool. So I did this one shoot with a group of about four women and two of them were just starting out in their Women Images & Realities class so they were just going into their first couple years [at SUNY New Paltz] and they had Amy [Kesselman, a professor at SUNY New Paltz]. Amy and I had a close relationship and she knew about my project and let me come in and basically do a call for models in her class and offered it as a liberating action credit for that assignment. So these two young girls, who I think were sophomores, came out and did my photoshoot. We were done with that by 8.30 in the morning, and later at 9 o’clock that night I was doing another model call/talk at a Q.A.C. meeting [Queer Action Coalition].
Kate: Oh yes, Q.A.C! (laughs)
Lauren: (laughs) Yup, that’s right, Q.A.C. So that was at 9 o’clock at night and I go to Q.A.C. and I start speaking about this and as I’m talking to everyone in the room my two models walk in and they have the words written on them, head-to-toe on their bodies still, so they had a full day of classes, it was mid-week on a Wednesday or something, and I just stopped and was like “What are you guys doing?! You didn’t shower or anything!?” (laughs). And they both just looked at me and were like, “We actually felt so great in our own skin after doing your project that we didn’t want to take the words off,” and that to me was really powerful.
Kate: How many people have you photographed so far? Ball park.
Lauren: Total?
Kate: Yeah.
Lauren: Wow. Just for this project?
Kate: Yes. Hundreds?
Lauren: No, definitely not in the hundreds yet. It must be between 30 and 50. It’s not that extreme yet.
Kate: So where do you see this project going?
Lauren: That’s a great question. I have so many ideas for this. Ideally, my focus for right now is that I would really like to expand the demographics.
Kate: Right, I wanted to ask about what the demographics have been like. Age? Gender? Race? Etc.
Lauren: The demographics right now have been usually young, white individuals around my age; anywhere between 20 and 30 years old. I have photographed people in their 50s on occasion but it’s rare. The majority of the people are young, white liberals (laughs). I do have some control over the types of people that I attract but I can’t have total control over that and do screening because that’s not what the project is about; I want this to speak to breaking down barriers for all types of people, because that’s the only way that this can work. So to an extent, like I said the models have to be ready to do this, so with respect to that I only have so much control, so whoever is ready to come comes and does it. But I would definitely like to get people of various abilities; whether you identify as disabled or someone who has a certain physical ailment, which may not be an ailment to you, people of different ethnicities, different gender identities, you name it.
Kate: I want to hear more about the technical aspect of it. What kind of camera is it and what made you decide on the large format?
Lauren: Okay, cool. The camera is one where the negatives are 4 inches by 5 inches, so the reason I chose this camera was that so much of this project—the photography aspect I actually only consider to be a fraction of what the project is about, which is largely performative and unifying people through a shared experience—the reason why I picked this camera is because you can’t just snap a photo of these people. Usually it takes me up to 15 minutes to compose my center triptych panels. I don’t give the participants much direction once they’re in front of the lens either. I just say, “Stand however you feel comfortable in this moment.” And they’ll do it for roughly 10 to 15 minutes outside, being present with that, while I’m doing this with the camera. Plus, if you’ve never been around one of these cameras they’re big.
Kate: Yeah, they’re intimidating.
Lauren: Very intimidating. So you’re aware of the fact that someone is watching you, which also lends itself back to the idea that we all watch each other and we all have first impressions of each other and things like that which lends itself to projection. That’s really why I wanted to use this camera. Also, in terms of the final product, this isn’t the type of thing I think you should view on a small scale. I want this to be something where you are confronted by the people that you see in these images. So if I were to do it digitally you wouldn’t be able to get the same quality. I wanted it to be as close to real as possible, so that’s why I’m doing it this way.
Kate: Do you personally have a preference between digital and film?
Lauren: It depends on the shooting. I have a huge love for film photography. I think it’s a dying art. So I do have a preference for film, but at the same time if I’m doing a studio shoot—shooting yogis or something like that—I’m going to use a digital camera, depending on the scenario.
Kate: What about color versus black-and-white?
Lauren: That also depends.
Kate: So it all depends?
Lauren: Yeah. I actually used two cameras for this project. The large format is for the finished work, but for the actual process photographs I’m shooting digitally, and that’s a perfect example. I’m trying to get images of on-the-fly candids. Stuff like that shouldn’t be set up.
Kate: What’s it like to be an emerging artist? You recently just graduated [from SUNY New Paltz] in 2012, so what’s it been like to navigate the New York art scene?
Lauren: Beautiful.
Kate: Yeah?
Lauren: Yeah. I love meeting people. I love talking to people. So that aspect of it has been really fun. I’d be completely lying if I said that it hasn’t been really difficult. Going back to something that Phoenix [Lindsey-Hall] said last week—which is that there are such limited resources for professional development for artists—it feels like you graduate and then you just fall of the edge of a cliff. It definitely is a type of feeling that it’s all on you. If you do well then that’s all on you and if you’re not in a place where you want to be then that’s all on you too. So what I was really committed to doing after I graduated was that I have a day job but every second that I’m not at that job I’m making sure that I’m in the city and using that time for studio time, networking, making new images, scheduling more shoots, things like that. It’s definitely its own machine, but it’s definitely the most gratifying thing I could be doing with my life at this time.
Kate: What do you want your art to accomplish?
Lauren: With regards to In Others’ Words, I want viewers to be confronted with the reality of how we perceive each other, and call into question how that manifests through our interactions. What assumptions do we make about each other based on what we think we know? How does this effect our treatment of one another socially and politically? On a small scale this might seem like a trivial thing to focus on upon first glance, if you choose to glance at all. But on a global scale, the effects are tremendous. I am a huge supporter of Macklemore, and I believe he says it best in his song “Same Love”:
“We become so numb to what we’re saying
It’s the same hate that’s caused wars from religion
Gender to skin color, the complexion of your pigment
The same fight that led people to walk outs and sit ins
It’s human rights for everybody, there is no difference
…I might not be the same, but that’s not important
No freedom till we’re equal.”
This message strikes at the very core of what I want my work to accomplish. Discrimination based on our differences manifests in every box we put each other in whether it be gender, skin color, identity, or personal beliefs. I want this project to unite those who choose to participate in it through sharing the unique aspects of their inner diversity that, when combined together, make them who they are: individual human being. Not merely one label or another. At the same time, it is my intent that those who view my work will be moved by the bravery of those people, and perhaps get a clear perspective on the roles they themselves have played in the labeling process that we use to separate ourselves from each other every day.
Kate: If you could collaborate with any artist who would it be?
Lauren: Oh crap.
Kate: You can choose more than one.
Lauren: (laughs) okay.
Kate: Living or dead.
Lauren: Okay (pause). I would really like to collaborate with Marina Abramovic.
Kate: Great answer.
Lauren: Definitely. That’s my answer right now.
Kate: I think that’s interesting because she’s a performance artist and performance art kind of exists in one space and time and is so present. But taking photographs, or a photographer collaborating with a performance artist, and making it permanent—in a way performance art isn’t supposed to be—so I was always interested in photographs of performance art because it makes it so permanent. So in a way it’s antagonistic to what performance art is supposed to be…
Lauren: Right, but that’s what’s so fascinating to me about photography too because there is a performative aspect to the whole thing.
Kate: Yeah, there definitely is.
Lauren: I would also say Carolee Schneemann. I wanted to bring her on for this particular project because she has a really interesting reputation inside and outside of the art world. Her work has been such a vehicle for real change and grappling with certain issues, so it would be great working with her.
Kate: And she’s another artist whose work is performance-based. Doesn’t Carolee Schneemann live near New Paltz?
Lauren: Yeah, I’ve met her so many times just by taking the bus.
Kate: Yeah, I’ve heard people [in New Paltz] being like, “Oh, there’s Carolee Schneemann on the street.”
Lauren: Yeah, it’s crazy. So cool.
Kate: My last question is what’s next, but I feel like you kind of already answered that. If there’s anything else you’d like to share, please do.
Lauren: Yeah, right now it’s just continuing this project and I am looking for more people to get involved in this so it’s absolutely limitless who can come out and do this. The project is about blurring the lines between the boxes society places us in by standing up and owning the diversity and complexity of our identities as human beings. The best way to accomplish that is to enroll individuals from as many walks and stages of life as possible. I would also love to start generating some video work. I have a pretty solid vision of compiling candid footage of the body writing process with separate interviews of the individuals who volunteer to participate in my shoots. I want the humanity and the individuality of these people to be as clear as possible to those who experience the finished product. The entire process that these individuals go through prior to being photographed is so crucial…it is the simulation of projecting identities and expectations onto each other, which we both experience and perform every day. That process makes up 3⁄4 of In Others’ Words, and right now, to me, that is under-represented. I’d like to make the reality of those events occurring as real as possible for my audience. I want them to see themselves in the work on another level by watching people undergo this intimate process. I want them to hear their voices and feel their presence. That is the whole reason that I shoot 4×5 for my still triptych images in the first place—to make the viewing experience as real as possible, as though you were standing in front of these individuals in person.
Kate: Yeah, definitely. Well thank you so much for talking to me about this project.
Lauren: You’re welcome, and thanks.
Lauren is constantly seeking individuals from all walks of life to participate in her project, In Others’ Words, and to be photographed. For more information, please contact [email protected] and visit http://www.laurenrenner.com
Lauren is also part of the upcoming exhibition NUDES, which opened on Saturday, July 27th @ REVERSE Gallery, 28 Frost Street, Williamsburg, Brooklyn 11211. Hosted by Beautiful Savage Magazine.
